Clutch Questions (KTM)

Technical articles, tips, tricks and advice from the experts (and there are plenty of you!) on jetting, suspension, riding techniques, muffler bearings, powerband installation or anything dirt.

Moderators: OMRA, BRN2RDE, dlharte, JRCanby, oregonsage, Tawmass

User avatar
mikegcoleman
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:37 pm
Location: Tigard, OR
Contact:

Clutch Questions (KTM)

Postby mikegcoleman » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:54 am

So I went out yesterday and picked up a 2003 200 EXC to play around with and have some questions.

I'm going to start with the clutch as that is the one that is befuddling me the most right now.

The lever seems REALLY hard to pull (to me). I have the Magura hydraulic clutch on my Husaberg and there is no comparison (of course the Husaberg has a Rekluse in it - so that probably accounts for the difference as much as anything else). I have some other bikes with standard cables, and these are much easier as well.

The other oddity is that when I pull in the lever and shift into first I can feel the clutch engage a bit and the bike want to move. A couple of times I put the bike into first and clutch engages enough to stall the bike out.

From what I've been reading sounds like I might need to "back bleed" the clutch (I put that in "" because I haven't yet determined what that is or how to do it :D)

Thanks for any input,
Mike
If I had known dirt was this much fun I'd never gotten on the street . . . 25 wasted years

2003 KTM 200 SX
2003 KTM 200 EXC

User avatar
dlharte
OMRA Officer
OMRA Officer
Posts: 3040
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:49 pm
Location: Camas WA

Postby dlharte » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:12 am

back bleeding is pushing fluid from the slave cylinder at clutch up through the line into the master cylinder at the bar. Do not use brake fluid!!!!!!

Magura has a special mineral oil, but I read that you can use Mobil 1 synthetic ATF as well. I have used it without trouble.

Wouldn't hurt to pull the clutch aparts for inspection. Look at all the plates and basket for wear and make sure springs are centered and not rubbing anything when you go back together. Also check the master cylinder and lever making sure everthing is clean and lubed.

Different transmission fluids can effect the clutch drag situation. Rotella T 15-40 is probably what you use in the burg (recommended by Rekluse) it should work in the 200 as well. We use it in all our bikes 2 and 4 stroke.
OMRA Competition Director/Referee
This member’s opinions are solely his own and may not match those of any network, organization, advertiser, fellow member, club, his family, friends or dog. It will be clearly stated if/when posting as a moderator.

User avatar
eobigbull
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:07 pm
Location: Eastern Oregon

oil

Postby eobigbull » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:26 am

Dan, are you using the rottella in your 450 also?
Lorne Peterson
08 450 xcrw 35F
09 300xc Tys bike 78AA
09 450xc also Tys
Thank You, FMF racing, KTM Country, Cyclops Adventure lighting, Sig Tech,Dirt tricks

User avatar
dlharte
OMRA Officer
OMRA Officer
Posts: 3040
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:49 pm
Location: Camas WA

Re: oil

Postby dlharte » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:25 am

[quote="eobigbull"]Dan, are you using the rottella in your 450 also?[/quote

Yep the synthetic which is a 5w/40 I think. I have always ran the motul 5100 but recently switched after some research with no problems encountered. The Motul just got very expensive so I went looking for an alternative, I do believe in changing oil often. The Rotella is wet clutch certified.

Sorry about the hijack Kastl but it wasn't really my fault....this time.
OMRA Competition Director/Referee
This member’s opinions are solely his own and may not match those of any network, organization, advertiser, fellow member, club, his family, friends or dog. It will be clearly stated if/when posting as a moderator.

User avatar
KTMDirtFace
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 1649
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:39 am
Location: Bend, Oregon

Postby KTMDirtFace » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:42 am

All of my KTM bikes I have had drag a bit until the clutch gets warmed up. It never stalled it for me though until my clutch plates 2 of them were fried/warped so it was dragging really bad.

I don't know why the lever would be hard to pull?

Magura makes Magura Blood to bleed your clutch with.
-Jack
2015 OMRA XC/GP #18D
2014 KTM 500 EXC - Honk Honk.

User avatar
mikegcoleman
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:37 pm
Location: Tigard, OR
Contact:

Postby mikegcoleman » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:43 am

I'll continue with the hijack since it's my thread :oops:

You're using the Rotella for both the transmission and the hydraulic clutch - right?

How often are you changing transmission oil?

(folks will have to get used to dumb questions from me - it's just how I am).

Thanks,
Mike
If I had known dirt was this much fun I'd never gotten on the street . . . 25 wasted years



2003 KTM 200 SX

2003 KTM 200 EXC

User avatar
dlharte
OMRA Officer
OMRA Officer
Posts: 3040
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:49 pm
Location: Camas WA

Postby dlharte » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:20 am

Rotella in just the trans, or in the case of my XCF, engine and trans as they are not seperate like the EXC and XCW's. Mobile one synthetic ATF in the clutch system IE master, slave cylinder and line.

On the mini KTM's we have rekluse's and we are running the Rotella 15-40 in the gear box/clutch. Synthetic Rotella in my XCF with standard clutch.

The oil comes out looking good, the clutches work great and there is minimal stuff of the plug. About $13 buck a gallon, about $20 for the synthetic. I see no need for synthetic is the gearbox only but I like the thought of it in that high dollar XCF engine.

PS Back bleeding the clutch line is a pain if you don't have the right stuff. An alternative is opening the bleed screw a couple of turns at the slave cylinder and keeping the master cylinder full as it runs out the bottom. Air will want to run up the line, that is why they say back bleed but gravity will pull the fluid down faster then the air can migrate up IME. So it will purge out the bottom, just don't get distacted and let the master cylinder run dry....or you will be starting all over with a bunch of air in the system (I don't want to talk about how I know this). Same method works great for front and rear brake system, just let the gravity do the work and you will see when fresh fluid is coming out your done. A piece of clear hose pushed over the bleed fitting lets you see what is coming out and direct it to a catch can.
OMRA Competition Director/Referee
This member’s opinions are solely his own and may not match those of any network, organization, advertiser, fellow member, club, his family, friends or dog. It will be clearly stated if/when posting as a moderator.

User avatar
Russell p
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 638
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 1:47 pm
Location: Redmond, Ore.

Postby Russell p » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:00 pm

We also use a syringe to pull the fluid through with a short piece of vent hose, works great!

User avatar
mikegcoleman
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:37 pm
Location: Tigard, OR
Contact:

Postby mikegcoleman » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:45 pm

Ok - so today I opened her up and took a peek at the clutch. The plates were good - the basket "fingers" showed no grooves.

I changed the transmission fluid (I had some Honda RB on hand, so I used that). The oil that was in there was grey and there wasn't too much of it left. VOILA I thought - not so much though.

I tried to bleed the hydraulic clutch from the top, but my patience is too thin. I have a syringe, but my tubing I have laying around is too big - so I'll see if I can find something tomorrow to work with.

Here are some more details:

When it's cold the clutch drag is real bad - If I put it in gear and pull in the clutch I can't push the bike. If I take a trip down the block and back (really about 3 blocks). Then that drag disappears (as does the drag when shifting into first).

The other curious thing is that there is rattling when the bike is idling and the clutch is out - if I pull the clutch in the rattling goes away (it's coming from the clutch compartment near as I can tell). But, like I said, I checked the plates etc. and they looked grand.

I'm going to try the bleed thing, if that don't work I'll take it to the shop as I want them to give it the once over anyway.

But, if you have any thoughts on here, let 'em rip.

Mike
If I had known dirt was this much fun I'd never gotten on the street . . . 25 wasted years



2003 KTM 200 SX

2003 KTM 200 EXC

User avatar
KTMDirtFace
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 1649
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:39 am
Location: Bend, Oregon

Postby KTMDirtFace » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:12 pm

mikegcoleman wrote:
When it's cold the clutch drag is real bad - If I put it in gear and pull in the clutch I can't push the bike. If I take a trip down the block and back (really about 3 blocks). Then that drag disappears (as does the drag when shifting into first).

Mike


I don't know about the rest but this is pretty normal. The oil and clutch has to warm up before it works right. At races I usually sit there with the front brake on slipping the clutch in place to warm it up. ( So that I can start the bike in gear when the flag drops otherwise it drags to much and stalls )
-Jack
2015 OMRA XC/GP #18D
2014 KTM 500 EXC - Honk Honk.

User avatar
DNFDave
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 1910
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:54 pm
Location: Troudale

Postby DNFDave » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:13 pm

When it's cold the clutch drag is real bad - If I put it in gear and pull in the clutch I can't push the bike. If I take a trip down the block and back (really about 3 blocks). Then that drag disappears (as does the drag when shifting into first).


Thats normal.

I'm going to try the bleed thing, if that don't work I'll take it to the shop as I want them to give it the once over anyway.


I don't think bleeding is going to do anything for you.If you have air in it its going to be spungy.
Dave White
President of the Reid Brown fan club

User avatar
mikegcoleman
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:37 pm
Location: Tigard, OR
Contact:

Postby mikegcoleman » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:24 pm

Thanks for the inputs - I figured the drag was expected since the oil is down in the case until the bike spins up a bit.

The noice is a bit off-putting, and the clutch pull just feels a bit too tough - which is the complete opposite of spongey - maybe it's normal and I'm a complete wussy ;)

Mike
If I had known dirt was this much fun I'd never gotten on the street . . . 25 wasted years



2003 KTM 200 SX

2003 KTM 200 EXC

User avatar
tang8u
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:58 am
Location: beaverton

Postby tang8u » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:24 pm

So I went out yesterday and picked up a 2003 200 EXC

The other curious thing is that there is rattling when the bike is idling and the clutch is out - if I pull the clutch in the rattling goes away (it's coming from the clutch compartment near as I can tell). But, like I said, I checked the plates etc. and they looked grand.

Please

History on bike

KTM clutch are almost bullet prove.

The other curious thing is that there is rattling when the bike is idling and the clutch is out.

Some thing loose inside.

Time to split and Look

Tang
Tang
Bad judgement Makes for Great Stories. I seem to have a lot of stories :)

User avatar
KTMDirtFace
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 1649
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:39 am
Location: Bend, Oregon

Postby KTMDirtFace » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:42 pm

Clutch pull being hard doesn't make sense to me the hydro ktm clutches are butter smooth/easy so I don't know why yours is hard.
-Jack
2015 OMRA XC/GP #18D
2014 KTM 500 EXC - Honk Honk.

User avatar
j-boat
AA Pro Class
AA Pro Class
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:11 pm
Contact:

Postby j-boat » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:12 pm

Just my .02 worth......being from the oil biz. Rotella is great for bikes as is most diesel type oils. They are formulated to adherer to particulate and carry it out on oil drains. Magura uses mineral oil for their fluid of choice. Mineral oil is the base of most motor lubricants so if needed, one could run it in the magura system without fear of failure. The mineral oil that I use is baby oil. The ingredience are mineral oil and fragrance.... everything a clutch needs.

Bleed them as Dan explained This way the volume of the oil will push the air out of the system. On you clutch lever, you have a screw to adjust how deep the plunger dives into the mster cyleder.adjust it in.

J-boat
Jay Fitzsimmons
2012 OMRA GP 8F
2012 Team series 1F
"I have a huge carbon footprint"
http://www.hookit.com/Members/JayFitzsi ... fault.aspx


Return to “Technical”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests