Ladies and GentlemenTo allow for peoples schedules, the board and members to carefully consider and submit rule or discussion proposals for the November Annual Calaendar Meeting we are moving the October Board meeting to Wednesday October 8, 6:30PM.This meeting is the final board meeting before the November calendar meeting.All proposed calendar dates, events and rule changes or additions must be formally submitted to Ed Ariniello and Tom Konicke by Sunday, October 5, 8PMOn 48 hour request:We could also allow good faith Webex (Style) or conference call participation for this and future meetings up to an including the calendar meeting at the particpants expense if there is any incurred.Please submit your or your clubs request to James Harris, OMRA SecretaryName, phone, email, representing group, reason or interest for each particpating personGroups must be clearly defined and approved and are private to our causeAll OMRA Organizational and Competition Rule change proposals to include:What the opportunity is or what has occured in the pastAn exampleWhy this is not as good as it can beWhat can be done about itWhat solution there isWhyHow it will benefit the sport, riders and or organizationEach final proposal statement must provide for a clear Yes or No Vote."Shall the OMRA rules be staed as "......""Shall the OMRA require ">>>>""Shall all members me required to"" ...." "Shall the consequenses for XXX be ">>>>>"Submission does not guarantee a vote or decision but will include at least a table place for future discussionPleaseWe can not be laying any club, individual or associations respect or reputation openWe must work from postion that all our members, member clubs or promotors are doing the best with what they have.Whether they are or not, whether someone is doing it better or not.We also must work from the basis that you are either helping move the sport or organization forward - or you are participating willingly without threat or the infamous "hold out" clause - or you are working against it:-)However, that said, we will also not be following the all too common positon of doing or talking about the same thing over and over again and expecting different results or a better future.This does not promise we will change everything or every time.It also does not promise you will like any of itWith your help it does promise we will all move together  - or notFor those that can't, well, the world wishes you well ;-)Please, as with our childrenWe are the keepers of the present and the future not the past unless it truely serves to guide us forwardPlease come with your eyes, minds and hearts open to take us and our sport to a new level, beyond where you have ever thought we could move in the next few months. Be prepared to surrernder to each other as much as support or debate. Do not come for what can not work, has never worked or should not work for sacred reasons - those only serve history.Ask yourself before you come or act; Are we who we can be?  Are we who our fellow members and sport need us to be?What must "I" be or do to get us there together.Step up - Volunteer  your brain or hands at least!Note:If the ODF can hire Dave Hiatt , what can we do - since we've told the world and ourselves we're so mcuh better than - who ever - for all this time.No, I am not running for election, this is that and who I am ever day.It is why I ride.PSLike I have told my team at work, if my spelling of grammer bother you, you missed the point  :-)If YOU choose, I'll see you in the future!RespectfullyEd

r

All,
Please sift through Ed's post above and take heed on his requests. We are trying to make things better for everyone throughout the state, and he (as always) has some great ideas.

Be aware that we need any Rules mods or changes submitted by THIS SUNDAY, 10/5! If you submit something, please follow Ed's requested format.

NOTE: The October Monthly OMRA Meeting (normally held on the first Wednesday [tonight]) has been pushed out to next Wednesday, 10/8! Please spread the word!

thanks!
-Tom

Members

Here iis a summary of what members have turned in for consideration
If we missed something please let us know.
The board will work to deciide which decisions will be moved to a vote for the 2009 year.
Please, do not jump out and take to offense to any involving something clese to your heart.


We will request Tom N create a forum for each under OMRA Rules for member discussion and feedback
With assistance we will have a survey for each - if you can help set this up using Survey Monkey.com or another venue please contact Ed A.

Thank you all for your feedback

Proposal for a Vet A class designated VA. 38 YR old Minimum, any Vet, A, AA, Pro, National, Regional or International A or greater qualifying rider
Proposal to require adequet and respectable facilities at all OMRA events - Specail note to Eugene MX
Shall the OMRA sanciton events with improper facilities
Proposal to adopt AMA point scoring - see AMA rules
Proposal to adopt AMA transfer point rules - see AMA rules
Proposal to continue and fully adopt the OMRA number plate ruling
Proposal for DQ if OMRA assigned number plate or substitute pie plate is not used for an event
Proposal to limits events to no more than 2 back to back weekends - GP and XC combined or separate
Proposal to require electronic scoring at all OMRA GP and XC events
Proposal for OMRA to approve an OMRA graphic and graphic supplier
Shall the OMRA limit events to 2 per month to allow family time, cost controls, improve participation and cost/investment controls
Shall the OMRA closeJjanuary to GP and XC events
Shall the OMRA close February to GP and XC events
Shall the OMRA seek AMA sacntioning and listing of the OMRA Cross Coutnry Series?
Shall the OMRA seek AMA sanctioning and listing of the GP Series
Shall the OMRA review and place an applicable rule in place for event or mid season rider class re-alignment for 2009
Shall the OMRA require event promotors to follow and execute an OMRA event class requirement rule in 2009?
Shall the OMA put in place the "WORCS" style class alignment rule?
Shall the OMRA enforce the course preriding rule upon course set up work?
Shall the OMRA enforce the course preriding rule upon additional class entries allowed or not allowed by promoters?
shall the OMRA require a rider application and subsequent OMRA class alignment for retruning riders? Ex Past Expert returning after layoff
Shall the OMRA require returning riders to first ride in previous classes to determine correct class, thereby avoiding accidental errors in lower class event competition results
Shall the OMRA continue to sanction the XC Team Race as a part of the OMRA XC series


Requests:
More clear event calendar postings
Allow OMRA volunteers to NOT be board members or directors - THis according to my knowledge is a beleif not a requirement
Allow OMRA volunteers and Board members to NOT be required to attend Monthly Meeting in person
Put in place processes or duplicate processes or training that do not hold up OMRA processes and maintenance - ex points, message board
Put in place a volunteer program to consistently administer the OMRA membership requirement at all events
How can the OMRA improve management of un retrieved awards?
Shall the OMRA place a limit on awards pick up aand responsibility after the banquet
Shall the OMRA sanction the Dick Jagow Event in 2009 considering course makring issues?
Shall the OMRA sanction the Dick jagow event in 2009 with existing scoring system?
Sparate rules discussions and meetings from calendar decisions meetings process



Please let us know if we missed any

OMRA board,

The following is a summary of the proposal I made to you at a meeting about adopting the AMA Points and Transfer system. I see this subject is on the agenda and would be happy to attend if necessary to explain what I know about it. In summary, I will just be reading the AMA rule book and paraphrasing the legal mumbo-jumbo but I think it will eliminate a lot of questions about the OMRA system as the AMA has been doing it this way for a while and it seems to work. Here is a paste from an earlier post I made on the transfer point subject. I also still have the full presentation I made to the OMRA board that summarizes the points and transfer system that I have sent to ED as I can't post it here... I apologize for the dated material in the quote but you get the point. (no pun intended, hehe )

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Proposal:
- OMRA adopts a policy similar to the AMA National Advancement System and use Rider Performance Value (RPV) to determine advancement. See page 35 and 36 of the 2006 AMA Rules Book. (link to rules... http://www.amadirectlink.com/rulebooks/)
- Require OMRA membership to race OMRA events, just like the AMA and WORCS does. Day passes could be made available for $5 per day. (cheaper than 1 gallon of race gas. In addition, a racer would only have to ride 3 races to equal a yearly membership so most racers will just join as they usually do more than one or two races. Especially when the 1st race is a 2 day event…)

How would this work?
1. Every rider that finishes the race gets points as they would be OMRA members, even if just for the day.
2. Each rider is scored against ALL riders participating in their class instead of just against the people who wanted to pay for yearly OMRA membership.
3. Combination events (NMA, WORCS, etc…) could waive this OMRA membership fee requirement, as WORCS does, if they are members of the partner organization, but they would still get scored as OMRA members. (Most AMA and WORCS riders will probably join anyway to support the sport.)
4. OMRA officials would need to be ready to collect money and promptly sign up new members, as not to make sign up more painful, at every event. This may take some organization and cooperation with clubs…

What does this mean?
1. OMRA points scoring would actually be easier as everyone gets points, not just yearly members. The list of names in the overall results would be larger but that is what you want, right?
2. Race promoters would also benefit as advancement points are averaged, therefore:
- Riders who want to go to every race in a series would no longer need to worry about accumulating too many transfer points as the RPV is what determines advancement and this is averaged on events where you actually receive points.
- Racers who show up and smoke the class but only ride a few events would be forced to move up sooner as their RPV would be too high.
3. The advancement system would also be less subjective to argument, fewer headaches for OMRA officials, as the math drives the result and math doesn’t lie…

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I am not trying to discount all of the hard work the OMRA puts into making this a fair and competitive sport as they do a great job. Keep up the good work! And I will race no matter what the rules are or what class I am in as there is always someone out there to race with and its all about the riding anyway.

Race y'all later,
Ron

Forgive me if this is a dumb question but wouldn't that just eventually change the structure of the classes to be similar to that of the worcs or ama classes? At the worcs race in olympia this year, nearly every rider I talked to was racing a class down because they said the classes were "different". By scoring everyone together, the guys that show up once in awhile and sandbag will move a rider down a place giving them less transfer points. A few races like that would allow the rider to stay down a class when they would have been moved up a class. After awhile, the entire class' skill level would be elevated since transfers would be made according to how a rider places against others who claim they are in the same skill level instead of how they place against riders who are actually in their skill level. Everyone seems to agree that its hard to control sandbagging because these guys show up for one or two events so it doesn't seem right to include them when figuring transfer points. I don't know much about computers and data keeping but it also seems like it would create a whole lot more office work to keep track of every rider that entered an OMRA event. Personally, I think a good alternative to "everyone gets points" would be to make the classes available for paid members and have 2 sportsman classes for the day pass racers, amateur and expert. Join OMRA or pay $5 for a day pass and ride in one of the sportsman classes. They(day pass) still get to race without creating paperwork and the guys that are on the fence would join. That way, the current transfer point system would be just fine and the class structure would stay the same.

I have done something maybe not so popular with folks, but I challenged the validity of the Team Race.

Since I joined the board, I have objected to having the race count toward points because it is not an individual effort and points are not awarded in congruence with rider's performance.

From another angle, racer's expenses are increased for no practical racing reason.
Probability of injury and mechanical failure are real and could change the end of the season for a contender.

I feel like I'm buying 25 points (being held hostage) just to stay in the hunt. Because of implications awarding points for this race has, I'd be willing to pay the entry fee to get the points and then not race so that I would be sure to roll up to the starting line on the final race of the series the next day.

Like I said, I feel like I'm buying the points, but if I must pay the $$ (ransom), I'd rather spend $35 for entry fee and points than "that" plus risk breaking something.

I am from California so I'm sure that has something to do with it (wussy boy). You Natives are just tough, but us Cali-folk are a litigious bunch and maybe it is not always wrong to question the process.

I wonder if the notion of having a team race determine final placings would go over well in the GNCC or any AMA MX series?

Good for everyone who contributed to this process!

I had no time to contribute in this time around. i regret that very much.
my life was frantic- reason: preparing to leave to volunteer for 3.5 days at an OMRA event.

I wish i had the time to properly format the the ideas we have worked on in the rules discussion forum for the past year.

I hope on future web and newsletter calendars we can be explicit about the nature of the meeting so we can contribute more.
I understand the need to get board approval for topics to be discussed.
However, I feel like the formality of how to introduce ideas to the board was
only just revealed last week.

I will save my opinions about what the board has chosen to consider out of due respect, of course.
I will point out that there are still no attempts at modern risk management standards or provisions in our organization.

I dearly love our sport, the state of oregon, the usa, and racing with the good 'ole OMRA!
Please give us the time and forum space to allow us to contribute in a meaningful way.

I don't understand how we are not discriminating against folks who don't have computers
or and check the board, let alone want to get on it.
I can think of a dozen racers who have no idea a rule comment period just came and went.

Thanks to those few who carry so much!
I am proud to be an (the) OMRA life member!

Peace through watching our people enjoy a weekend with their families!

r

r3pm wrote:

We will request Tom N create a forum for each under OMRA Rules for member discussion and feedback With assistance we will have a survey for each - if you can help set this up using Survey Monkey.com or another venue please contact Ed A.

I don't get this process at all...
We have had all year to post new rule ideas for member discussion and feedback.
Now we toss them out, and start over with a web only, one week only, new rule entry period?

How will OMRA moderate a "discussion"? This has never happened.
Who will do it in a completely objective way, open to all?

People will shoot down ideas and each other in the process you suggest.
People's feelings will be hurt and they will remove themselves from the process that was supposed to empower them.

So the board gets to pick the rules and then we get to discuss and vote on them?
And then we all (those of us who are online and are actively seeking out information) get to gang up on somebody's contribution?

I can't wait to rip into some of the ideas expressed so far. The web will allow me to respond quickly and directly to any other view other than mine. I can speak in ways that i wouldn't in a group or at a public meeting. I can create an alias and start flaming individuals who don't agree with me. I can devote time and energy into the rules others don't even know have been introduced. I like my chances to influence the political process as it has been proposed. I am not complaining, i am stating the obvious.

Online votes are simply unfair. It is so fundamentally flawed, one person can create a mockery of it. The number of OMRA members vs. the number of regular forum users is incomparable. Any system that approves rules online is faulty. Each member must be allowed to vote if there is a vote. Each member must be informed that there is a vote happening and when the deadline is.

It is nuts to me that we are allowing 1 week to provide OMRA with new rules and then we will take how many weeks to allow only a few internet savvy forum members to piss on them? Um, this is a waste of time.

How about we contribute for a few weeks, and then the board can decide what to put into effect next year?
Is the board insecure about their ability to make group decisions fairly?
How is allowing people to comment going to help us resolve issues fairly?
If the board decided what to even consider as a new rule, then they need to decide if it is best for everyone or not.
The OMRA board will still have to make the final decision after each rule has been beaten to death on the internet.

Does anyone have time to listen to every members' opinion throughly and carefully?
Does anything anyone says really matter, or does it just come down to a vote?
Why not just contact every member via the only way we can- snail mail with a ballet of yes and no questions?

There is a tone that is conveyed through the new proposed rules.
It is reactionary and negative and is pounded in by the word "sanction".
OMRA needs to look for ways to reach out, not to exclude, or threaten to do so.

A simple, fun, mail survey on a s.a.s.e. would provide heaps of valuable member information.
We need to know what the overall attitudes and misconceptions are of our membership.
We need to hear from all members and to make them feel like they can make a difference.

The number of new rules that have been proposed indicates that only a few individuals were able to submit new ideas. It looks to me like the OMRA is allowing rules to be proposed that require the clubs who put on races to police and enforce them, as well as pay for them. That is a dangerous allocation of power, discretion, and shows the OMRA can't enforce it's existing rules. OMRA needs to pass legislation it can enforce itself. The fact that so many current rules are not enforced makes any new rules seem a bit draconian.

Sincerely,

The Real Dick Savage

Thanks DickIt seesms like you would like to join our team?503-572-1400 24/7I answer between kids, bed time storeis & kisses, school work, dad time, family time, business, meetings, other non profit business, the gym,  the start and finish of a race or adventure. Throw on a yellow vest, hang out listen to all  these requests for improvement and help the decisionmake process move along more smoothly.Thanks, we could use the help, at least the man hours to help spread the load.
To the question of was there enought time?The proposals are all recieved and welcomed. The extra effort will make those decisoisn more informed.We also have a list from past years we review.In addition we also dig peoples concerns out of the forums, emails and phone calls we've logged all year.Did we miss yours?
As for being draconian, well, I think that was summarized in statement calling for more enforcement of what we do have.All we need are a few more able bodied, fair, thoughtful, easy to get along with volutneers and a group of 1000 to 2000 willing amiable paticipants or members  - of course they would all have to come form some other coutnry where everyone thinks and feels the same.
To the web opportunities.  Well we coudl stick to the "if you don't show up at the calendar meeting we'll take care of it for you process"?We could stick to the don't ask past?Or we coud get some idea of what is on peoples minds - that is wher the danger come in - its a lot easier not to ask - then you're not resposnible for considereing it.  maybe that is where I don't get it and why I make life os complicated - I keep asking...maybe you're volunteering to run a program for this purpose in the next few weels?My contact info is abovePS It's me out ther on the edge....knew it would be when I signed up and will know it when I sign off
They shot Lincoln, MLK, JFK - LeadersThey bombed  the USAWho put the targets on their backs?Who shot them? who did it?
People in the back.... people more uncomfotable outside the process than inside....participating and growing the possibilities.. people afraid and people thinking they spoke or acted for others and what was right....  Devils advocates some say. Martyr, others say.

Shoot it's almost 2 AM and Ive got a 7:30 AM all morning meeitng.. what am I doing doing this.... gotta go

Thanks again 

Yea, thanks i'll call you Ed to see how i can help you.
I'll spare you the 5:00 am phone call this time.

I don't understand most of your points in the last post.

I figure you can take some direct feedback without feeling like there is a target on your back.
I thought i was being constructive voicing my concerns...

My main point is that most of our membership has no idea there was a comment period for new rules.
My other point is that online voting doesn't work for a group who is not all online.
My third point was that there has been discussion on most of these topics, and it is unlikely that
oppositional views will come together once a specific forum is created to cover a proposed rule.

We have been discussing the transfer system, points system, team race issues, the vet AA class, and so on for some time.

I have been opening discussions all year on tear-offs, the legality of 2wd bikes, putting in mile markers for risk management, working on your bike outside of the pits during a race, what level of course working is pre-riding, the vet AA class, and how to better enforce existing rules like with # plates, and tear-offs, and pre-riding.

I suggest we do away with any requirement for clubs to send out flyers. OMRA should provide clubs with a complete membership e-mail list so they can be sent electronically with much more efficiently. OMRA should maintain the database through an online service like constant contact so we can see what people open their e-mail, and see what content they look at first, what they skip over, and if they followed a link. Keeping the data online is safe and easy! It would cost about $20 a month for the service.

Back in 2006 i introduced lots of ideas that are now rules such as-
no illegal drugs.
no dogs off leashes.
no smoking in pit lanes.
riders must go between markers when one is on each side of the course.
no using mtn bikes to pre-run the course
workers must get points for working the race day, not other days.
no running sportsman class or unclassified class to pre-ride a course.
i helped to define our current classes and what ability levels are encompassed in each.
i helped develop the color combos we use for # plates. I just did our only example mock-up OMRA plate as well.
i helped to develop the system by which worker points are given points based on a list approved by the club.

i have suggested a dozen other ideas over the past several years which didn't make it to law...
no pit riding or pit bikes.
require clubs to reveal the length of laps at an event.
require a AA purse.
i suggested re-wording our rules to be more explicit like the tear-off section that makes no sense (that was just re-raised in the rule book discussion section).
i tried to get a rule that said you need to race your proper age class rather than a younger or older one.

i'll stop there.

Quote:

People in the back.... people more uncomfotable outside the process than inside....participating and growing the possibilities.. people afraid and people thinking they spoke or acted for others and what was right.... Devils advocates some say. Martyr, others say.

I don't understand your reference. Are you saying i am slinging *(poop)* from the shadows?
I am an outsider? That i am taking shots at you from the outside for being a leader?
I was afraid to speak up?

I am an OMRA member, AMA member, BRC member, and am actively involved in two separate in-state off-road motorcycle clubs.
I promote the OMRA in many ways and have generated more than 20,000 views of OMRA events on youtube alone. http://www.youtube.com/user/MidtownRich

Sure, call me an outsider... i pick up the garbage at many races, I have paid for my own radio ads for promoting omra events, I sponsor riders, donate to AA purses, i sponsor race events, i create club websites and newsletters, i layout courses, i tear down courses, i man check-points, i create announcer broadcasts at the nationals, i write letters to the blm, usfs, and politicians, i participate in fund-raising efforts for the clubs, i attend every meeting i possibly can. I call and beg for sponsor help to make events happen, I hang flyers at the dealers, and i used to re-stock the omra member brochures around eugene shops, i work on trails on several usfs/blm work days each year, and i network with dozens of racers in and out of state,spreading the word about riders and events.

Quote:

- I keep asking...maybe you're volunteering to run a program for this purpose in the next few weels? My contact info is abovePS It's me out ther on the edge....knew it would be when I signed up and will know it when I sign off

I don't understand what you mean here either.
I will volunteer to help in anyway i can.

I don't want to run a program online to allow people to comment on the rules the board has selected to discuss further. I have tried to make the point that i disagree with the method of allowing only those of us who read this thread to comment on each proposal in it's own forum topic. Sure, i could try to moderate a discussion, but i think it would be much more productive to allow for dialog at the actual OMRA meeting, face to face. I'd be stoked to moderate that!
Sure, i'll wear the yellow vest, in a process that I can create and grow.

The board has listened to it's members and is considering new rules.
That is great.
Whatever way the board chooses to examine the ideas, great.
I merely tried to point out what i see as fundamental problems with the stated process.

I wish to better the OMRA not criticize it's leadership.
I had hoped that was plain to see.

Oh well, all you can do is try!
Sorry if i came off as brash before, i mean no ill will.
r

I got ya Rich


I beleive many of those rules were discussed and the rules reflect them - I'll check.I also beleive some of the proposals or ideas were points of control in place, to be put in place or enforced by promoters
ExI am quite sure we have voted on the team XC race and CHina Hat registrations almost every year in my short tenure, the vote just went in support of them.Again I'll take a look at these points.
Possibly our process after decisions is not as clear as it could bePossibly the enforcement is difficult or the consequences not clealy set (some of this is the reason some things are feelign a little draconian from what I see)In being out front, it's just a fact not a feeling of ill will
I am not saying your and outsider of the OMRA, I am saying that it sounded like you were and outsider to the process for making these decision making processes better.Ex
You can still be an America and knock the system, process, decisions or leaders
It's another thing to particpate and be a part of the change process


I beleive I hear you saying; other than you disagree with any web pole process, you might be able to help in other ways.I have heard and seen snippets of what you do for riding and the OMRA - Thank you for the additional information.It's great! Thank you.
I have also heard to just let you talk and not respond if I have a feelling ab out what you have said. As well, I have heard you do so much and mean well so jsut look the otherr way and wiat and see/  Since I felt you were more open than that ,I responded with my points and without real maliceAll this said, I suppose I was stating my opinion and participating in the process as well.

I too probably could tone it down when in the heat of the moment, I thought i was close to the same

Hey but , maybe I am worngg but, I think you mean to be heard and debated with fairly.

Take care, we'll see how we can take the road and make it better each year!

Respectfully
Ed

Hey Rich,
It's all good, as long as it's constructive. Stop it already with the 'outsider' thang - we both know you're not! You do tons behind the scenes and we are well aware of it. I'll fall on the sword for not having the latest updates to the Rules posted. Almost a year ago, Ellis and I started working on the Rules updates, but then he ran into some family issues and had to step down. I just plain got busy and it wasn't number one on my to-do list. What I did do was record the suggestions in the heading of the (archived) Rules, so they wouldn't be lost, but they are not (as of yet) actually entered into the Rules in formatted text. My bad. Now that I'm done gallivanting around the world, (and cancelled my next event) I should have a bit more time for things such as this. Thanks for the prod!
-Tom

Awesome that you listen to us Ed!
You rock!

I was and am frustrated that my extensive and intensive volunteer time at a race cost me
a realistic chance to shed light on more of my ideas for OMRA.

Don't get me wrong here. I was only listing past efforts to show my part in the process, not to say i wanted those things implemented still. There was a vote, i go with that. I support our rules.

I seriously would love to moderate an online rules discussion for the OMRA someday.
To try to get a brainstorming session and allow consensus to evolve naturally through real synergy.
(Perhaps when i grow up in a few years? lol!)

Yea, i am glad folks told you what a freak i am. Most of it is probably true.

Thanks for treating me like i treat you. 100% respect. Tell it like it feels. Hard to do that.
We say what we mean, within the process, to push for progress, fairness, and integrity.

I myself hire and fire people all day long while juggling multiple businesses, and i feel i can relate to you in many ways outside OMRA.
I totally respect the tool bag of skills you carry into our organization from your personal and professional life.

I know the few board members are very under-appreciated, overworked, and i would think they would feel like quitting once or twice a day.

Gosh we are all blessed by those strong, smart, few who lead us, fight for us, market us, and think for us!
Thank you.

(Ed- Did you hear me yelling and yahooing for you last weekend when you cleared the big jump on the motocross track before the spilt to trail? That thing was scary to me and you flat launched it! Way to go! What fun!)

peace through not holding back and not freaking out -it's a process- get into it!
r



(i will leave my drama filled ego satisfying posts up so others can see that voices are heard in the OMRA and people are invited into the processes we have in place.)((and so they know i'm a wingnut with a big mouth))

Kent I have a question for you, if the team race were held but no points awarded to anyone would you race the event?
Jim.